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Re: Teeth-Gnashing and Tongue-Lashing Over Desktop Linux Foot-Shooting
Posted by: Katherine Noyes 2009-10-19 05:12:55
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Lack of vendor support, lack of marketing, too much "bad techie attitude," too much infighting and not enough developer cooperation are "Five ways the Linux desktop shoots itself in the foot," contends Computerworld's Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols. "Every time i've ever posted on ubuntu's forum, ive been treated very nicely," protested Anonymous in the Computerworld comments. "Really?" shot back another Anonymous writer. "Because I've seen 'RTFM NOOB' more times than I care to count."
You know what the problem of those superior CLI commands are? they don't, oh...what is the word for it, oh yeah, they don't actually work. They don't work because it was written by someone who had "kinda sorta the same hardware as you, but not really, oh and different hardware firmware". Try getting a broadcom wireless to WPA2 with those easy CLI commands...BWA HA HA HA HA!
I've said it before and I'll say it again...Linux guys, you want a shot at the title? Then get a REAL ABI so that your users can just pop a CD in like everybody else, and there should be NO reason why you should HAVE TO go CLI. if you have to go CLI, then you have failed, because it means your GUI is frankly lousy. Most OSX and Windows users don't even know they HAVE a CLI, much less how to activate it, and look at the numbers. You can think the CLI is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but the public at large WILL NOT use it. I repeat they will NEVER use CLI. You know what happens when a user runs into CLI? They consider the machine "broken" and bring it to someone like me and ask "How much is Windows Home again?"
And THAT is why Linux is at a lousy 1%, heck I'll give you 3% just to be generous. As someone who has worked in PC retail for nearly 15 years, I know of which I speak, and the sad fact is Win98 and Win2K have more home users than Linux, because of the broken driver situation and the falling back on CLI too much. There is NO reason a driver should have to be maintained by kernel developers, in fact that is pretty much the most backward way it could be.
Make a stable ABI, dedicate some serious resources to making sure the GUI shines, and you have a real shot, because Linux security is top notch. But Until Joe average can actually buy hardware by just putting it into a basket at Walmart instead of studying like it was the GED, and can actually fix problems without getting a page and a half of Unix gibberish, well then don't be surprised when Win7 and OSX kicks Linux. Your "free as in freedom" is "free as in worthless" if the users can't get it to work. And you mark MY words, come 2014 when WinXP is finally EOL we will STILL be hearing "next year is the year of Linux on the desktop" while Linux hangs at a teeny tiny 3-4%.
I've said it before and I'll say it again...Linux guys, you want a shot at the title? Then get a REAL ABI so that your users can just pop a CD in like everybody else, and there should be NO reason why you should HAVE TO go CLI. if you have to go CLI, then you have failed, because it means your GUI is frankly lousy. Most OSX and Windows users don't even know they HAVE a CLI, much less how to activate it, and look at the numbers. You can think the CLI is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but the public at large WILL NOT use it. I repeat they will NEVER use CLI. You know what happens when a user runs into CLI? They consider the machine "broken" and bring it to someone like me and ask "How much is Windows Home again?"
And THAT is why Linux is at a lousy 1%, heck I'll give you 3% just to be generous. As someone who has worked in PC retail for nearly 15 years, I know of which I speak, and the sad fact is Win98 and Win2K have more home users than Linux, because of the broken driver situation and the falling back on CLI too much. There is NO reason a driver should have to be maintained by kernel developers, in fact that is pretty much the most backward way it could be.
Make a stable ABI, dedicate some serious resources to making sure the GUI shines, and you have a real shot, because Linux security is top notch. But Until Joe average can actually buy hardware by just putting it into a basket at Walmart instead of studying like it was the GED, and can actually fix problems without getting a page and a half of Unix gibberish, well then don't be surprised when Win7 and OSX kicks Linux. Your "free as in freedom" is "free as in worthless" if the users can't get it to work. And you mark MY words, come 2014 when WinXP is finally EOL we will STILL be hearing "next year is the year of Linux on the desktop" while Linux hangs at a teeny tiny 3-4%.
'RTFM NOOB'
Funny, really. When doing ANYTHING, women ask their men, "Did you read the instructions?" "Did you look at the map?" But, with Linux, "RTFM" is bad advice? Hmmmm.
Needless to say, I disagree with the hairy footed dude. People who fear the CLI shouldn't even sit down to a computer. They really need to RTFM.
Funny, really. When doing ANYTHING, women ask their men, "Did you read the instructions?" "Did you look at the map?" But, with Linux, "RTFM" is bad advice? Hmmmm.
Needless to say, I disagree with the hairy footed dude. People who fear the CLI shouldn't even sit down to a computer. They really need to RTFM.
Apple about this horrible and inefficient GUI thing. Think about all those people who jumped over to a Mac, some because of Vista, with a minimum $1K USD ticket to enter for a system that people love because of it's GUI. Never mind it's bolted on top of a Posix compliant Unix derivative. Or that people were paying $100+ premiums to have a seven year old XP installed, that Live CDs were available at no cost. Apple quadrupled their market for literally billions of dollars in revenue while Linux barely budged the needle.
CLI fascists continually crow about freedom and choices right before the sneering goose stepping kicks in. Oh yes, freedom is forcing the user to conform to your idea of "acceptable". I see this in forum after forum.
Some Linux users are like those caged bird who keep pecking at their reflection in a mirror while fooling themselves they are actually making progress.
So sad.
CLI fascists continually crow about freedom and choices right before the sneering goose stepping kicks in. Oh yes, freedom is forcing the user to conform to your idea of "acceptable". I see this in forum after forum.
Some Linux users are like those caged bird who keep pecking at their reflection in a mirror while fooling themselves they are actually making progress.
So sad.
Attitude, the one you got, oh baby attitude.
Posted by: divide_by_zero 2009-10-19 09:58:16 In reply to: Katherine Noyes
Great article....
I don't like this "command line seen as harmful" thing. GUIs are not inherently more useful than CLIs, it is just easier to fake user friendliness there, because you can literally paint it pink and purple, and write everything in large, friendly letters.
When I have some problem, and I look at forums for answers, I think it's much better to solve things with a couple of commands I can just copy and paste without even reading, than following one of those complicated recipes like "go to the second menu at the left on the top (assuming it is there) then select 'options' then open the icon XYZ, go to tab PQR hover over the third item double click the right button..." come on, is that really so good?
When you have real problems GUIs are not really that easier and helpful, and they just get in the way of the fix. All fixes are bad and patchy and hacky, and CLI is the way for that.
And the need of fixes is the real problem, and not going to the CLI to apply them. That is what we must attack. And most of the time who's to blame for the need of something to fix? None other than closed-source products. It's always the closed source drivers and the pirate programs and codecs... When you have 100% FLOSS, give enough time and you get 1, 2 or N distros with all of it working nice and smoothly. Try to integrate some closed source thing, and then you have problems. And who's to blame? The FLOSS developers? No, it's THEM, "the Man".
The problem is that people like "Joe the user who is terribly afraid of _letters_", these people think it's easy to complain to the "FLOSS dudes", while the companies, specially the mysterious ones that produce them but who reach us only by their proxies, the stores, they are not approachable, they don't listen, they don't care. But _they_ are the ones that should be receiving complaints.
"Oh, Linux is so bad, it doesn't even work with this new sound card that only has a Windows vista driver". This is a silly complaint. The noobs making it should really go read the Fantastic manual of Linux, live, universe and everything, and understand the problem before start whining.
I'm tired of damn whiners. Go use Whinux, please, and leave us alone!... They are the ones who need to take an attitude.
When people only have Windows available, they never complain about it. Because there is no alternative, and so It's not Windows' fault, it's always "informatics'" fault.
When I was younger I thought that when people had alternatives to try they would start to see flaws in windows... But unfortunately this is not happening. Windows is like the old lover, or your partner's parents in a personal relationship. People always compare the new one to the old, and never dare considering how the old could change. The new one supposedly wants to make the user happy, and so the user complains, while the old one is inflexible, and so the user never bother to complain about it...
Just closing: Android is cool, but I don't see it much as a great victory for Linux... You don't see Linux much when you use it. Maemo is the mobile Linux OS that has my attention. Maybe Moblin too, but I don know it very well.
And write my words: 2012 will be the year of Linux on the Desktop!!!... ;)
I don't like this "command line seen as harmful" thing. GUIs are not inherently more useful than CLIs, it is just easier to fake user friendliness there, because you can literally paint it pink and purple, and write everything in large, friendly letters.
When I have some problem, and I look at forums for answers, I think it's much better to solve things with a couple of commands I can just copy and paste without even reading, than following one of those complicated recipes like "go to the second menu at the left on the top (assuming it is there) then select 'options' then open the icon XYZ, go to tab PQR hover over the third item double click the right button..." come on, is that really so good?
When you have real problems GUIs are not really that easier and helpful, and they just get in the way of the fix. All fixes are bad and patchy and hacky, and CLI is the way for that.
And the need of fixes is the real problem, and not going to the CLI to apply them. That is what we must attack. And most of the time who's to blame for the need of something to fix? None other than closed-source products. It's always the closed source drivers and the pirate programs and codecs... When you have 100% FLOSS, give enough time and you get 1, 2 or N distros with all of it working nice and smoothly. Try to integrate some closed source thing, and then you have problems. And who's to blame? The FLOSS developers? No, it's THEM, "the Man".
The problem is that people like "Joe the user who is terribly afraid of _letters_", these people think it's easy to complain to the "FLOSS dudes", while the companies, specially the mysterious ones that produce them but who reach us only by their proxies, the stores, they are not approachable, they don't listen, they don't care. But _they_ are the ones that should be receiving complaints.
"Oh, Linux is so bad, it doesn't even work with this new sound card that only has a Windows vista driver". This is a silly complaint. The noobs making it should really go read the Fantastic manual of Linux, live, universe and everything, and understand the problem before start whining.
I'm tired of damn whiners. Go use Whinux, please, and leave us alone!... They are the ones who need to take an attitude.
When people only have Windows available, they never complain about it. Because there is no alternative, and so It's not Windows' fault, it's always "informatics'" fault.
When I was younger I thought that when people had alternatives to try they would start to see flaws in windows... But unfortunately this is not happening. Windows is like the old lover, or your partner's parents in a personal relationship. People always compare the new one to the old, and never dare considering how the old could change. The new one supposedly wants to make the user happy, and so the user complains, while the old one is inflexible, and so the user never bother to complain about it...
Just closing: Android is cool, but I don't see it much as a great victory for Linux... You don't see Linux much when you use it. Maemo is the mobile Linux OS that has my attention. Maybe Moblin too, but I don know it very well.
And write my words: 2012 will be the year of Linux on the Desktop!!!... ;)
